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Lingvo Eurocracia

From an October 28, 2002, Internet chat with European Convention chairman Valery Giscard d'Estaing, sponsored by the European Union. Participants were invited to discuss a draft of a new European constitution that was released that week.

[Joshy] When is this Europa Chat going to take place?

[Joshy] I'm american

[jonm] Mr chairman, which of the four names for europe do u prefer: european union, united states of europe, european community or a united europe?

[Suzanne] I think it starts now with us talking to each other

[Guy] for the name how about just Europe

[Joshy] I would like to know how concerned you are, yourself, and as a body, about the waning interest in the EU regarding the future of the EU and the legitmacy of its operations

[Guy] bon apetit

[FEDERALE] Mr. President d'Estaing, Why in the Convention none sees the real fundamental subject involved, i.e. the creation of a new power, a new State, the creation of the European Federation?

[FEDERALE] I think that any of the project approved by this important convention will not be felt as creation wanted by the people. Where is the people in this process? I don't see it.

[Conv_EN1] Hi there — the questions are just coming in and being translated into English. You'll here from us soon.

[sos] The EU recognizes five basic consumer rights. Will these be included also in the European Constitution?

[Joshy] I'm willing to bet I'm the only American in here

[Joshy] hehe

[FEDERALE] I don't think the name of the future Europe to be a real problem. The question is: do we want a Federal State?

[annahg] what's the meanings of a constitution for the Europe

[Joshy] I think the US needs another world power to keep it in check.

[BERNI] I'm willing to bet I'm the only Majorcan in here

[RobertB] Joshy: I just hope the EU does not become an abusive bully given enough powers.

[Joshy] Yes, and I hope the EP continues to gain more relevance. The EU seems disturbingly covert and undemocratic at the moment, and tending to get worse.

[Joshy] I hope you guys can work things out, I'm gone — gotta go to class

[respro] M. President VGD: Will the convention choose a COMMON, SIMPLE, NEUTRAL SECOND language for all USE citizens as the USA did in 1776? If not, you can forget your USE!

[Conv_EN1] From Moderator: we're really delighted to have so many people participating — but please, please, please, give the President time to answer your questions

[HezbollaH] Mr. President: What is the EU future role in the middle east conflict and its strategy in defining terrorism?

[TGA] By the way, where IS the president?

[Foederali] It seems to me that the chat needs to be better structured.

[cathy] agreed

[RobertB] Foederali: I disagree. THis is the way the commission chats have always been structured, and I think using IRC as now is the best way to prevent censorship or other abuse — this may be chaotic but it's really for the best

[HezbollaH] Is the "so-called" president in this channel? How are we going to obtain the answers?

[Conv_EN3] To Respro: The citizens of Europe are very keen on keeping their languages. It is a right we must respect. However, we should promote the practical use of a smaller number of working languages in order to have direct dialogue and not to have to rely always on translations.

[PeterCosm] islamic and jewish fundamentalists are both better occupied in helping world development in that plane than in violence in the name of God — which is an error

[HezbollaH] Question: How true are the rumors that Hezbollah will be mentioned in the list of terrorist organizations of the EU?

[Foederali] At least one answer from VGE we would not mind.

[PeterCosm] Hezbollah — quite likely I think

[Tony] anyone that murders people for political gain is a terrorist

[HezbollaH] Tony and anyone who murders people for the sake of freedom is . . . ?

[PeterCosm] i suspect because it has a military arm bent on killing

[HezbollaH] PeterCosm, our "military arm" is limited in one geographical location which is the Lebanese occupied land. What does that have to do with terrorism?

[Ivanus] Cur non Latine et non Anglice?

[Tony] there are also terrorist states hez . . . many eu citizens support the palestinian cause but believe me dialogue works better than violence

[PeterCosm] The point about the middle east and this chat is that the convention wants to crystallise solidarity within Europe so that everywhere globalization with be improved thru soilidarity — true world development — the beginning of a civilization of love

[Ivanus] Lingua anglica possibilitas est, sed non iusta: lingua materna est non omnibus civibus.

[cathy] Farming and Fishing

[Sorin] Mr. President and dear chat friends: In most of the chases the European constitutional treaty will be adopted by referendum most probably starting with 2004. What about Bulgaria and Romania?

[PeterCosm] few know latin, but i like it

[Michele] Esperanto is more neutral

[Suzanne] nobody knows Esperanto, it is not the language that is used the most nor the one that develops quickest. English is.

[cathy] So what exactly is a constitution? I speak Gaelic and we only have Parliaments

[PeterCosm] the tower of Babel would collapse!

[ElMo] Latin is my choice as it is the root of the majority of the languages in Europe

[Michele] we have to find a EURO language

[Silvah] Michele, forget it

[Michele] latin is dead

[Ivanus] Rectissime dicis, Elmo!! Vivat!!

[Silvah] There will never be a EURO language

[Ivanus] Lingua latina nullo modo est mortua, Michele!

[HezbollaH] ElMo but latin is outdated. Evolution had its word.

[Foederali] Ivanus: Why not Chinese, already one Billion people speak it.

[PeterCosm] its nice to talk three languages

[Michele] why you want to force us to learn english if we do not want it?

[Conv_EN1] By the way, do you all have any questions on the Convention? Or have you asked, and haven't had a reply?

[Foederali] Michele: you do already

[Conv_EN1] Hey! We're the interpreters. Don't you have any questions for President VGE????

[Michele] i don't want to be forced

[Ivanus] What the president think about a neutral language? This is: LATIN ???

[PeterCosm] good

[Conv_EN1] Euro English isn't neutral — it just isn't English . . .

[ParsaMila] Is the European Union President here or not?

[Ivanus] LATIN is NOT DEAD!!

[prokey] I cannot believe that some just cannot accept English as language of international relations

[RobertB] This chat seems to work far worse than previous chats! Hardly any answers are coming in. Is this because the chairman's native language is French and most attention is directed to the French channel?

[respro] I'm sorry: English is completely unfit as the common USE language and so are all the other ethnic languages. We need a COMLMON, EASY, NEUTRAL, SECOND lingvo internacia! Esperanto! It already exists since 1887. What's your opinion about this very crucial problem M. VGD?

[Andrea] Ivanus, I agree with you about Latin . . . but, unfortunately, it'll be most likely a utopia

[cathy] Mr President. Monsier — yoohoo

[Steve] Most of Europe is sleepwalking into a tyranny like those few can remember. Lose our democratic nations and we are in deep shit.

[Ivanus] gratias tibi ago, Andrea! Fortasse veritatem dicis . . . tantummodo utopia . . .

[Ivanus] Exist the "pronuntiatio restituta"

[Christine] How likely is the prospect of a unified European military, or even a rapid reaction force?

[cathy] I hated latin at school

[Tony] To Steve . . . a European Union is the one of the ways that a future tyranny can be avoided

[Angelos] I'm afraid that the only room satisfied tonight will be the french one . . . :(

[Ivanus] Ante magnum defensorem virtutum patrimoniique communium Europeorum, lingua utar nostra communi, non solum Ciceronis Vergiliique, Plini vel Boethii, sed etiam Batavi Erasmi, Poloni Copernici, Galli Cartesii, Angli Newtoni, Sueti Linnei

[Steve] D'Estaing heads a coterie of fat-cats determined to become the Eurocracy of Eucratia — immune from prosecution, irremovable from office and immensely well off. We must stop them before they stop everything which makes life worth while. No identity — no morality. If we do not stop this sinister farce we shall rot away.

[respro] Guy: Esperanto is a lot easier; even I could master it in three months. It's a very vivid and living lingvo. It's the second L on the www; Try google or yahoo and type

ESPERANTO, you will be amazed!

[Silvah] STeve, you might have seen too many movies

[Angellos] <To moderators> I was wondering whether we could skip for a while this whole language issue and go a little further . . .

[spithas] quit

[Conv_EN1] It isn't — I'm just joining in your discussion because I'm bored. No work is coming my way.

[respro] AGAIN: ESPERANTO FOR PRESIDENT OF THE NEW UNITED STATES OF EUROPE!!!

[Silvah] Conv_EN1, what is your work then?

[Conv_EN1] I'm one of the interpreters into English for this chat. But since we're not getting any replies to translate, we're not doing a great deal . . .

[Ivanus] Esperanto or Latin . . . but not english, my God!

[RobertB] Conv_2: Why is the president ignoring us?? There seems to be LOTS of activity in the French room but I don't understand French

[Angellos] Got disconnected . . .

[Silvah] Time stopped?

[RobertB] Maybe tell him that this is no way to build confidence in his European COnvention group. At the very least we want replies to our questions.

[Master] Mr. President: I thought that this chat room was meant for all EU citizens and not only for the Frenh!

[Nita] does somebody answer in English room too ?

[Steve] Silvah thinks I watch "movies"!!! Studying the workings of the Eurocracy doesn't leave time for "movies." They pour out their directives and regulations like a volcano vomiting ash — more than anyone can deal with — more than the subject governments can deal with — crippling small businesses — driving farmers from the land and fishermen from the sea — STOP watching "movies" Silvah and wake up!

[ElMo] In this Chat We can see the disadvantages (chaos!!) of not having a common second language in the EU

[PeterCosm] Steve — its a magnificent beaucracy — at our service in our common relationships

[Steve] I'm afraid so — it's called "bread and circuses" or how to keep the people docile

[Silvah] So, you're against any form of transnational or supranational organization then Steve?

[Philipp] Steve, national democracy has absolutely no means of controling a globalised business. those advocating the national sovereignity are in fact those who want business to rule with no social or environmental

restrictions.

[Tony] national governments should deal with national issues . . . a democratically elected european parliament/government should deal with international issues such as trade/defence

[Silvah] Philipp, I agree . . . "only national democracy" leads to conquests and wars

[Steve] Philipp, Not so — without national boundaries the globocrats take over

[Philipp] Steve, they already have taken over, long time ago. Only a strong European state can somehow limit the damage. Or do you think that any individual European country, even a big one like Germany or the UK can do anything against US interests, let's say in the IMF or the world bank?

[Steve] Jean Monnet (father of the EU) once said that it would be one of three great blocs controlled by a global government.

[Sorin] Phillip: a European state are you saying? I hope you want to see a copy of the US in Europe.

[Persia] Is the President here or not?

[Conv_EN1] Yes, the President is here in the room — sitting right across the way from me, in fact;

[ElMo] We should keep trying with question like common language and united foreign policy, very important questions. Please Mr. President Why don't you answer them?

[Angellos] I have both chat rooms in front of me . . . the difference is impressing . . .

[Steve] The global government exists as the UN (controlled by an utterly undemocratic Security Council) the WTO which is colluding with the EU to give big business the run of its subject states and the Council on Foreign Relations and the Bilderberg Group — so much for democracy!!!

[Angellos] Alors, MrVGE. Que'est-ce qu'on vas faire?

[PeterCosm] If solidarity is based on equal dignity, then together in a union we create a communion, and this is not only in seeing an image of one another in one another, but tending from this material world toward sharing in the love of God. Why would this not be good for atheists who don't know about God?

[Angellos] nous n'avons pas des reponses

ici . . .

[zulko] Ou sont les reponses??

[ElMo] We are arguing and talking among ourselves, The President is talking to the . . . french.

[Steve] UKIP — UK Independence Party — Vlaams Blok — Lijst Fortuyn — Front national — FreiheitsPartei Oesstereich — all suppressed and lied about by the Eurocratic media — they are Europe's only hope

[Conv_EN1] Whenever I start a message with the words "to So-and-So," this is an official answer from the President which I have just translated.

[Tony] now you show your true colours Steve

[Ivanus] Lingua Anglica, nativa Britannis & Hibernis, emolumento est eis in negotiationibus, detrimento aliis. Nonne justius est linguam neutram invenire? Quenam habet plus historie communis Europee quam Latina, que in multis scholis et universitatibus docetur?

[Ivanus] Non merentur, Elmo. Sed gratias plurimas! ;-)

[Steve] TONY — that's supposed to be meaningful is it? Don't forget that it was the Nazis who last attempted to unite Europe and their successors in Italy are following in their footsteps!

[Tony] thru violence and state terrorism . . . not democracy

[Steve] Tony — that is exactly what is coming — when Giscard get his mitts on our freedoms. Have you see the provisions for a EU arrest-warrant in the Nice Treaty — you should!

[Andrea] Sic est, Ivane.

[Angellos] i really can't help wondering . . .

[Steve] Tony — There is no community of mutual undersatnding — all that happens is that a bunch of politicians form an elit and please themselves. National democracy is the only possible kind of democracy!!

[Conv_EN3] To Respro: The Convention has not debated the language issue

[Tony] Steve there should be multi layers of democracy. . . . with a European Parliament at the top which should not interfer in purely domestic issues

[Milad] so the president has left?

[Steve] Tony — the Brussels QUANGO should not interfere in anything — it has no right — and it doesn't care. Only the people of a country care — they must decide for themselves

[sandra] Mr. President, can you tell me why animals can be burned alive, tortured in very sadistic ways until death, dogs are hung in trees out of tradition, bulls are darted and beaten until death in village feast and much more, all this for entertainment?

[Sorin] The women victims of traffic will continue to be considered immigrants?

[fox] Don't you think that the EU is a CHRISTIAN club ? I think it is . . .

[respro] That's all folks. VGD went home. It's past 21:30 in Brussels

[fox] Is it finished ?

[Steve] The "corpus juris" is an invasion of national codes of law — it gives the state frightening powers — no free juries — no defence against tyranny — the EU is re-forming the Gestapo — it must be stopped

[Nirgal] the chat is over

[helen] are they not now starting to change the three pillar model?

[Philipp] Steve, now I don't get you, why are you afraid of a new Gestapo, if you like all the extreme parties in Europe, like Vlaams Blok, Freiheitliche Partei, List Pim Fortyun etc.? Tha doesn't make much sense.

[PeterCosm] helen, the three pillars was an empty centre

[Steve] The pillars are to be demolished to make way for a monolith — you'll be sorry, if they manage it.

[PeterCosm] empty

[PeterCosm] centre

[Sorin] helen: looks like they will put down the pilars

[PeterCosm] Mr Thacther

[PeterCosm] Mrs Margarewt T

[PeterCosm] The empty centre is a vaccuum

[operator] THE SERVER WILL BE SHUTDOWN IN 2 MINUTES

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SEE ALSO: Career as European Convention chairman; European federation; Language policy; Online chat groups; Giscard d'Estaing, Valéry

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