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Meeting McNamara

From the transcript of an April 25, 1995 exchange at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government between Robert McNamara and Maureen Dunn, the widow of a Vietnam veteran. Dunn's husband, Joseph Dunn, was a Navy pilot serving in Vietnam who was shot down over Chinese teritorial waters on February 14, 1968; at the time, McNamara was the secretary of defense. Although U.S. intelligence indicated Dunn survived the attack, no rescue attempt was made, largely because of the government's fear of drawing China into the war. The exchange occurred during a question-and-answer session following a speech by McNamara to promote his book In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam. Maureen Dunn lives in Randolph, Massachusetts.

MAUREEN DUNN: Mr. McNamara, you don't know who I am. But you certainly played a role in a situation that created the rest of my adult life. My name is Maureen Dunn. And I don't know if you remember the incident—February 14, 1968, “the China Incident.” You, President Johnson, Vice President Humphrey, Clark Clifford, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Wheeler, General Taylor, [Press Secretary] George Christian, Secretary of State Rusk, [presidential aide] Tom Johnson, and [National Security Adviser] Walt Rostow met for thirty minutes about “the China Incident.” Do you remember that?

ROBERT McNAMARA: No, I'm sorry.

DUNN: A pilot was shot down over Hainan Island. Do you remember that incident?

McNAMARA: I'm sorry, I don't.

DUNN: Okay, well, the thing is, his beeper was heard when he was first shot down [indicating that he was still alive], and then six and a half hours later it was heard for twenty to seventy minutes. And you people sat there in that room for forty-five minutes, never using his name: he was always “the China Incident.” He was twenty-five years old. So you never had a face to see. Or to know that he had a twenty-five-year-old wife and a baby, a one-year-old baby.

But I'm that guy's wife. And on page six of the classified document that I received in 1992 [an account of the meeting Dunn obtained through the Freedom of Information Act], you said, “No rescue attempt should be made. Don't go after him. It's not worth it.” And all these years, Mr. McNamara, I've wanted someone who was at that meeting to say to me, “I am sorry.” And I'd like you to say that to me in front of all these people. “I am sorry.” Please. I just want you to say, “I am sorry.”

McNAMARA: I have no recollection of the meeting, and I can't believe I—

DUNN: Well, it's right here.

McNAMARA: I understand what you have, but I haven't seen it and I'd like to see it.

DUNN: It's right here.

McNAMARA: But let me just say this: if I said it, I'm not sorry, I'm horrified.

DUNN: I'd like you to say to me, “I'm sorry, Maureen.”

McNAMARA: Well, I'll say I'm sorry, but that's not enough. I am absolutely horrified.

DUNN: Well, it's right here, sir, on a twelve-page document.

McNAMARA: Well, if you'll let me have that, I'll take it home. I'll look at it.

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SEE ALSO: Apologizing; Cabinet officers; Casualties; Interviews; Dunn, Maureen; Meeting with Robert S. McNamara; McNamara, Robert S.; War widows

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